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Challenge: Disprove CM's Thesis

cheetahmaster posted this thesis on music of our generation. And I'm curious to see if it can be disproved. I think it probably can but I don't know exactly how or with what examples. (Note: I don't think you can or should take CM to task directly for the statement if you think it's wrong, let's just call it a statement that's hanging out there to be disproved.)

It's also hard to define greatest, in the sense that do you mean are they our generation's Elvis? Or our generation's Beatles, Led Zeppelin, or Rolling Stones? The latter of whose influence and greatness is probably widely debatable? [edit] And can our generation even have something seminal like that?

I am thinking of greatness in a sense of popularity + musical quality (or percieved musical quality based on critical repsonse) + staying power. And I don't listen to what people would consider "great" bands by those standards, so I have a hard time coming up with alternatives.

Anyways, discuss.

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Comments

rob_donoghue
Jul. 7th, 2006 02:47 am (UTC)
It is easily disproven and utterly unassailable.
snidegrrl
Jul. 7th, 2006 04:25 am (UTC)
Dangit, I want to hear what other bands people think are that great! Fie! How should I have phrased this?
multiplexer
Jul. 7th, 2006 11:03 am (UTC)
"Recommend 5 Bands/Albums you feel were influential on modern Top 40/Pop."
snidegrrl
Jul. 7th, 2006 01:49 pm (UTC)
That doesn't get people fired up though, they've already written it as a meme 289574 times on their blog.
multiplexer
Jul. 7th, 2006 02:05 pm (UTC)
This is true. Hmmm.

Well, I know you're really into Genesis. Early Genesis is largely held by music nerds to be a major landmark band in the early 70s punk/new wave movement that also spawned David Bowie. Maybe ask something like, "What bands do you think were the greatest innovators in punk/rock, and which albums or tracks are the most important?" (I would answer THE CLASH here, but someone would come back with the RAMONES, and we would have to DUEL.) Or, "What genres do you think have the most impact on modern culture?" Or, "Which bands had the best lasting impact on modern rock?"

My brain is full of an ever expanding encyclopedia of music. Music is something we Do. I have 6300 tracks on my iPod. From its depths spawns all kinds of madness -- although, right now, as usual, I am listening to my B-sides Nirvana mix.
snidegrrl
Jul. 7th, 2006 02:21 pm (UTC)
I wish I had a more encyclopedic music collection or knowledge, but I always find myself shying away from generally recognized things. I went through my indie phase, which concentrated in a sort of riot grrrl place, and now I'm having a prog phase, which is providing me with endless obscure and slightly less obscure bands to listen to, such that I have probably heard 2 Clash songs in the past 12 months, because there simply are not enough hours in the day or dollars in my bank account. I am approaching 6000 tracks on my ipod, and half my CDs aren't even ripped, and it's all so sad because life is too short.

But anyways.

I do have these kinds of discussions all the time with other prog fans on other boards. But the outrageous challenge statement was what I figured would get people in livejournal space talking.

And I have two words for you about impact: King Crimson.
multiplexer
Jul. 7th, 2006 02:43 pm (UTC)
I have no King Crimson on my iPod. I do have King Missile's Way of Salvation album, but somehow, I don't think that's the same thing. :) I also have a healthy dose of Dead Milkmen.

There's some serious punk, techno, and electronica here in the artist list, which flashes my tastes. And it's a wide and very healthy selection of techno and electronica music. I likey the oontz oontz oontz, but that it no way precludes listening to everything else on God's green earth. Iggy Popp, right now, is also very, very, very popular in the household.

We have the same problem with ripping CDs. I estimate that 60% of our CDs are ripped and in iTunes. But I suspect that the 40% missing might very well be crap.

ect does mix album exchanges with people to get more music passed around, so every once in a while we get a hot infusion of new stuff. Every mix album exchange thus far has spawned 2-3 album purchases. Physically exchanging music with other people has, thus far, been the absolutely best way that I've found to get people to hear and think about new songs/groups. They're trivial to produce in iTunes -- I sent off a techno mix disc with 8 songs that had to have a certain sound to them -- and you can put together art and liner notes and everything. You can't do cross fading or slip queuing or anything that is hawt DJ l33tness, but you can produce a mix album.





snidegrrl
Jul. 7th, 2006 02:59 pm (UTC)
Hey if ect would like to do mix exchanges, I am all over that! I have a long and varied history of mix exchanges. I might even have a tag for that although I think they are all just under the LJ tag "music". Oh, except I've only back-tagged through 2003. Heh.
multiplexer
Jul. 7th, 2006 03:18 pm (UTC)
I'm very fond of mix disc exchanges right now because mix discs are something that is not baby-dependent and something I can pick at while at work.

If I understand the game right, you have a bunch of people in a pool that all play. Someone picks a topic ('water', 'flying', etc.) and everyone gets assigned random mix exchange partners. Everyone puts together a mix disc and sends out discs in the mail -- or, you know, drive the whole 1/2 of mile to your house. Wash! Repeat!
snidegrrl
Jul. 9th, 2006 06:53 am (UTC)
OK, my topic is 'crazy'. I may have a head start... :D I'll make you one if you make me one?
multiplexer
Jul. 11th, 2006 01:26 am (UTC)
Woah. I am way behind from being on vacation!

I'll make a tag called crazy for music, and some mix disc goodness shall be had.
(no subject) - snidegrrl - Jul. 11th, 2006 02:11 am (UTC) - Expand
rob_donoghue
Jul. 7th, 2006 02:10 pm (UTC)
Couch it as AWESOME! Who is AWESOME?

I mean, if you want discussion rather than an answer, I think it's a great question. What about, for example, the Police? Popular, influential and with a front man who may be one of the few to define the political rock star more effectively than Bono.

How about the Buggles? First music video, and while the band went nowhere, the members have all strongly impacted the development of music.

Hell, what about Def Leopard? One of the best selling albums of all time, and probably the poster band for Hard Rock, though that title might be wranglable.

Or New Kids on the Block. Sure, they sucked, but they were the spearhead of change in the music industry. If you want the face of a generation of music, NKOTB is the place to be.

Hell, Phish deserve soem props even. I'm nto a huge fan, btu th epower of the Dead's Legacy is also the fuel for Hootie and the DMB, and Phish is really the icon for that.

Lot's of interestign options depending on where you draw the lines.
snidegrrl
Jul. 7th, 2006 02:33 pm (UTC)
AWESOME is more easily interpreted as subjective. The wonderful thing about using the word "greatness" is that it can be all the objective and subjective things and each person can interpret it differently and we can all fight. You know, for fun. :)

The Police totally came to my mind too. They did span eras (punk to new wave?) and were BIG and yet still highly respected for musicianship and such. But then Sting went nuts and thought he was the devil and made terrible movies and it all went to shit. The fact that the last Police album came out 20+ years ago made me not try to make a case for them.

Buggles: I might as well say the Monkees, because Mike Nesmith was making "music videos" before MTV was on the air. I think of "Video Killed the Radio Star" as a quaint novelty. And it's been beaten into our heads that that was the first video such that now even the nostalgia about it is kind of tiresome. People would rather not see A-Ha's "Take on Me" video once more godforsaken time. (Or that could be just me.) There's so much more to mine from that era. :)

Def Leppard? How about Metallica? In fact, I think a case could be made for Metallica despite ReLoad. I think Master of Puppets has more lasting significance culturally than Love Bites. :)

NKOTB was, to me, just a reinvention of the Monkees formula. Take 4-5 cute guys. Write them some music. Slap some trendy clothes on them. Sell a gerjillion records to 13 year olds. I give that invention to Bob Rafelson, Bert Schneider, and Don Kirchner. :)

I can't comment on the Phish thing. They've always been very peripheral to me.

I love to explore all the interesting options. :)
rob_donoghue
Jul. 7th, 2006 03:08 pm (UTC)
Yeah, but pretending this isn't subjective is an impediment.

I agree that Metallica is a better band than DL, hands down, but at the same time, DL is more...emblematic of the hard rock movement. part of that is the level of commercial success, part of it is that lack of quality. They're just the right kind of loud.

Buggles get more props for th efact that their members are all guys whose names show up deep in the jacket info of a lot of albums. The video angle is just the thign that seperated them from other bands and people (like, say, the Alan Parsons projects) who had _huge_ behind the scenes influence.

I call bias on the topic of the Monkees. :) I think they were absolutely an influence on the creation fo the artifical band, as were other efforts, including real winners like Menudo. The reason I pick NKOTB is that it is the perfection of the forumla _without apology_. The Monkees were created to be _derivative_ of other bands, and that was held agaisnt them (Did they play their instruments questiosn being the big indicator). NKOTB was _shamelessly_ shallow, but that's what worked.

That said, Ah ha is actually a wonderful choice, if only to be emblematic of our flash in the pan obsession.
multiplexer
Jul. 7th, 2006 02:43 pm (UTC)
I decree this day to be the day of AWESOME.