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So, if no one ever points out spelling, grammar, or word choice errors to anyone else because it's rude and doesn't belong in a debate, how will anyone ever learn how use the english language correctly?

Today's temptation: "...others are reasonable conversationalists who just happen to oppose (or think they oppose) the major tenants of the community." She may have said tenants on purpose, as if the people in the community rent space there, but I think she meant "tenets".

My attention span has been so short today that I opened up my Neopets account which I haven't touched in 3 years.

Last night's dream was just silly and fun. I dreamed that I had to go to work in Norfolk on saturday, so I had Jack drive me down there (a 4 hour trip). Somehow on the way we found oontzgrrl and she took over the driving. Unfortunately, after we were a fair bit down the road, starting to see beach resorts and things, she drove into the swimming pool of one of these little resorts. She was sort of giggling and being all "oops! sorry!" about it. Fortunately it was a resort that her dad just happened to own a time-share in, so we went in there to dry off. The resort itself was really neat because it was very kitschy and 50s, and the main building was a giant A-frame with a square channel-pool running between each of the units. We were in a different building. We spent a bunch of time trying to get our stuff out of the car that was in the pool and dry it off. For some reason I had brought like five stretchy undershirts. Perhaps the strangest thing about this dream was that the ocean was on the wrong side, that is, to the west.



( 21 comments — Leave a comment )
Apr. 10th, 2004 12:36 pm (UTC)
hehe I caught that one too but I only bitch about spelling and grammar in my own journal. I would spend too much time pointing things out to people! Did you point it out? I'll have to go look . . .
Apr. 13th, 2004 07:01 am (UTC)
I didn't; I don't want to seem like a jerkus. But I was thinking, like, maybe this person would like to know how to do it right?!
Apr. 10th, 2004 01:03 pm (UTC)
See what happens when you take lingusitics?
Personally I don't worry about spelling and grammar all that much. It's important for people to learn to speak and write with some skill in order to present themselves well when it really matters; ideally this should happen in school when you're young, since as an adult it's a much harder process. Even as a student of English I don't feel motivated to correct most people, unless they're open to it.

I guess for me it all comes back to the arbitrariness of grammatical rules, most of which were implemented for classist reasons--the creation of a "superior" version of the language that would differentiate educated (upper-class) people from the riff-raff. Linguistically speaking, there is no right or wrong in a language, only a natural human tendency toward creativity. When we judge others on their language use, more often than not we're judging them on their education or their inherent ability to learn or use a language, things that vary a lot from person to person.

So, blah blah blah, five million years later, although someone's grammatical or spelling mistakes might make me cringe, I usually manage to hold off, unless I'm helping someone proof a paper or something. Or unless the person is a jerk. ;)
Apr. 13th, 2004 07:02 am (UTC)
Re: See what happens when you take lingusitics?
You bring up a totally good point!!! Why didn't I think of that?
Apr. 13th, 2004 07:05 am (UTC)
Re: See what happens when you take lingusitics?
Cuz it was the weekend and you had better things to think about! ;)
Apr. 10th, 2004 02:38 pm (UTC)
oppose (or think they oppose) the major tenants of the community." She may have said tenants on purpose, as if the people in the community rent space there, but I think she meant "tenets".

*giggle* Yeah, I think so. My strategy is to bite my tongue and then chuckle about it to others, which doesn't sound very nice but nobody gets upset at me either. :-P

As for the "all languages are equal" in a previous comment, as that person mentioned, there ARE accepted standards that signal "educated and careful writer" and others that signal "I'm not so good at this" (or sometimes, "im not putting alot of efort into this d00d"). Especially in a public forum where nobody knows you personally, these signals are important. You wouldn't show up for a blind date in a stinky shirt covered with ketchup stains, greasy hair sticking out every which way, but that's the way some people write. Maybe they're the free spirits they like to think of themselves as... but then again, maybe they're just slobs. (That said, the person you quote above doesn't seem to be a slob so much as someone who just chose a very unfortunate sock color. *G*)
Apr. 13th, 2004 07:11 am (UTC)
there ARE accepted standards that signal "educated and careful writer" and others that signal "I'm not so good at this" (or sometimes, "im not putting alot of efort into this d00d")

That's true, and a good point. I guess I'm just extra wary because sometimes it can be truly hard to tell whether or not a writer has other things going on that impede proper language usage, like learning disabilities. Being that I'm dyslexic myself, I probably worry about it more than the average person does. :/
Apr. 13th, 2004 08:51 am (UTC)
I guess I'm just extra wary because sometimes it can be truly hard to tell whether or not a writer has other things going on that impede proper language usage

This is a really good point. I remember I was on a BBS once (back in the day!) and this one poster would never capitalize anything, and she sometimes didn't get punctuation right and ran words together. I remember thinking, "Geez, take a little more time, would you!" but of course I didn't say anything. But someone else DID make a snide comment on it, and it turned out the poster had a neurological problem and didn't have very good fine motor control in her hands. It took her forever just to type out a single paragraph. Here I'd been thinking she was sloppy and careless, but she was actually putting in infinitely more effort than I was, just to get ANYTHING out. :(

So yeah, that's one reason I never say anything to the person. And I do try to make allowances in case there may be something about the situation I don't know... because boy, the person who made the snide remark to that poor woman must have felt like a complete jerk. (At least I hope they did.)
Apr. 11th, 2004 08:29 pm (UTC)
I hear talk of this Neopets.

What is it, exactly?
Apr. 12th, 2004 06:52 am (UTC)
Neopets is an evil, time-sucking diversion that has had me in its tenacious grasp for 2 years now.

It's ostensibly an electronic pet site, but it has elements of gaming, collecting, chatting, "battling", and general socializing. Anytime I get tired of one element, I invariably find another one to divert me for hours at a time.

And it's all "free." You have to see the occasional advert, but no pop-ups.

Only down-side is that I suspect dial-up connections would suffer a lot. It is apparently a band-width hog.

Apr. 13th, 2004 07:05 am (UTC)
I did notive alot more product placement in the games since last I played (over 2 years ago!!) but it's not really obtrusive at all. I have my 5 favorite games I play and that's about it. :) My account is "snidegrrl" if you do the thing where you add neofriends.
Apr. 13th, 2004 07:04 am (UTC)
What she said *points up*. It's a cute little virtual pet site where you can play games. When I say "cute" I mean "dripping with Saccharine", so be warned. :)
Apr. 11th, 2004 09:27 pm (UTC)
The worry of picking apart language use in debate is it can come across as snarky and nit-picking.
I often tell folks that over use of internet lingo will hurt their debate, but past that I don't comment as long as it is readable.

But for me, my spelling and grammar are far from perfect, as I was in 'slow' classes for most of my educational career, and am often paranoid about coming across as 'ignant.'
Apr. 13th, 2004 07:07 am (UTC)
I didn't really think this person came across as 'ignant' I just wanted to like offer a friendly suggestion, but it really is kind of jerky to do that I guess. I never comment with spelling corrections - you'll often notice that I don't proofread this journal very well at all so I live in a kind of glass house. :)
Apr. 12th, 2004 08:10 am (UTC)
I'd like to be able to hold up little unobtrusive cards in situations like that, so I could continue to talk without becoming fixated on it. Just a little 3X5 that says "tenEts, not tenANts". There's a back of my brain grammar bitch who takes over sometimes and won't let me continue to have a conversation with someone until the detected grammar error has been corrected.

Or, you know, some other way to correct someone without derailing a debate.
Apr. 13th, 2004 07:10 am (UTC)
I was thinking, and it might not be so bad to drop in an anonymous comment in lieu of attaching a name to it. It might seem like a troll but also it's clearly not personal.
Apr. 13th, 2004 08:46 am (UTC)
If you comment and then click on "you can see it here" and delete it immediately, it still gets emailed to the original poster (if they're set up to get comments emailed to them) but nobody else will see it.
Apr. 12th, 2004 08:37 am (UTC)
for me, it's situational.

larksdream made a great comment, comparing correct grammar and spelling to what you wear on a blind date. The written word conveys its own impressions, whether we like it or not.

I feel that 'official' written statements lose their impact if they're poorly written and contain misspelling. In a cover letter for a job application, I go over every word very carefully - a misspelled word or badly constructed sentence could mean the difference between my resume being considered or getting tossed in the circular file. In LJ or chatting, I don't worry so much about spelling or sentence fragments since I'm expressing, not impressing. :)

Back to topic, when chatting with friends, I'll supply the correct spelling of a misspelled word here or there. If you're going to use a word, you might as well know how it's spelled. When it doesn't seem important or interrupts the train of someone's thought, I don't bother. But I wouldn't dream of correcting the spelling of someone I didn't know. I think that would be rude.

...although you could use the correctly spelled word in a comment...
Apr. 13th, 2004 08:54 am (UTC)
I'm expressing, not impressing.

Oooh, I love that! You don't by any chance write advertising slogans, do you? *g*

...although you could use the correctly spelled word in a comment...

I think this is the best solution. Of course, it's possible that the person will think YOU are wrong. ;-)
(Deleted comment)
Apr. 13th, 2004 07:14 am (UTC)
OOh. good vs well, definately worth taking a moment to correct.
Apr. 13th, 2004 06:28 am (UTC)
Great English
In keeping with the idea that precise English is required in order to communicate

Ancient Egypt was old. It was inhabited by gypsies and mummies who all
wrote in hydraulics.
They lived in the Sarah Dessert. The climate Of the Sarah is such that
all the inhabitants have to live elsewhere.

Moses led the Hebrew slaves to the Red Sea where they made unleavened
bread, which is bread made without any ingredients. Moses went up on Mount Cyanide to get the ten commandos. He died before he ever reached Canada but the commandos made it.

Solomon had three hundred wives and seven hundred porcupines. He was A
actual hysterical figure as well as being in the bible. It sounds Like he was sort of busy too.

The Greeks were a highly sculptured people, and without them we
wouldn't have history. The Greeks also had myths. A myth is a young female moth.

Socrates was a famous old Greek teacher who went around giving people
advice. They killed him. He later died from an overdose of wedlock Which is apparently poisonous. After his death, his career suffered a Dramatic decline.

In the first Olympic games, Greeks ran races, jumped, hurled biscuits,
and threw the java. The games were messier then than they show on TV now.

Julius Caesar extinguished himself on the battlefields of Gaul. The
Ides of March murdered him because they thought he was going to be made king. Dying, he gasped out "Same to you, Brutus."

Joan of Arc was burnt to a steak and was canonized by Bernard Shaw for
reasons I don't really understand. The English and French still have problems.

Queen Elizabeth was the "Virgin Queen," As a queen she was a success.
When she exposed herself before her troops they all shouted "hurrah!" and that was the end of the fighting for a long while.

Sir Francis Drake circumcised the world with a 100 foot clipper which
was very dangerous to all his men.

The greatest writer of the Renaissance was William Shakespeare. He was
born in the year 1564, supposedly on his birthday. He never made much money and is famous only because of his plays.
He wrote tragedies, comedies, and hysterectomies, all in Islamic

The next great author was John Milton. Milton wrote Paradise Lost. Since then no one ever found it.

Delegates from the original 13 states formed the Contented Congress.
Thomas Jefferson, a Virgin, and Benjamin Franklin were two singers of the Declaration of Independence. Franklin discovered electricity by Rubbing two cats backward and also declared, "A horse divided
against itself cannot stand." He was a naturalist for sure. Franklin
died in 1790 and is still dead.

Abraham Lincoln became America's greatest Precedent. Lincoln's Mother
died in infancy, and he was born in a log cabin which he built with his own hands.. Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves by signing the Emasculation Proclamation.

On the night of April 14, 1865, Lincoln went to the theater and got
Shot in his seat by one of the actors in a moving picture show. They believe the assinator was John Wilkes Booth, a supposingly insane actor. This ruined Booth's career.

Johann Bach wrote a great many musical compositions and had a large
number of children. In between he practiced on an old spinster which he kept up in his attic. Bach died from 1750 to the present. Bach was the most famous composer in the world and so was Handel. Handel was half German, half Italian, and half English. He was very large.

The nineteenth century was a time of a great many thoughts and
inventions. People stopped reproducing by hand and started reproducing by machine. The invention of the steamboat caused a network of rivers to spring up.

Cyrus McCormick invented the McCormick raper, which did the work of a
hundred men.

Charles Darwin was a naturalist. He wrote the Organ of the Species. It
was very long people got upset about it and had trials to see if it was really true. He sort of said God's days were not just 24 hours but without watches who knew anyhow? I don't get it.

Madman Curie discovered radio. She was the first woman to do what she
did. Other women have become scientists since her but they didn't get to find radios because they were already taken.
( 21 comments — Leave a comment )


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