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by the way:

People of the world, I understand why you hate america so much.

Arrogant shit like this.

I'm sorry, but it's not our god-given right to go fire missiles wherever we damn well please. The predator doesn't seem to me to be a "defense" tool, it seems to me to be an "assasination" tool.

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Comments

( 14 comments — Leave a comment )
swartzdk
Nov. 5th, 2002 04:35 am (UTC)
They KILLED a mess of Americans on the Cole. This is WAR and we not only have the right to do this we have the duty.
cheetahmaster
Nov. 5th, 2002 05:08 am (UTC)
Was there a formal declaration of war, per the Constitution? I must have missed it, if there was.
examorata
Nov. 5th, 2002 07:06 am (UTC)
Golly, they haven't bothered with one of those since about Korea, have they?
swartzdk
Nov. 5th, 2002 08:50 am (UTC)
Declaration
Not since WWII and fewer Americans were killed then.
swartzdk
Nov. 5th, 2002 09:01 am (UTC)
Declaration
Weather or not we declared war on them is meaningless in the face of the fact that they did declare war on us and they are showing no signs of quitting
(Anonymous)
Nov. 5th, 2002 11:25 am (UTC)
predator

This action prevented loss of life on a much larger scale.
during the Clinton administration we would have done the
same thing to his boss, Osama Bin Laden, but the proper
authorizations could not be met and the Navy (submarine?) with
a cruise missile pointed at OBL missed their shot. I do
keep the Navy on the payroll to (potentially) murder people for me,
and frankly I think I got my money's worth on this one.

I fail to see what the alternative is. ideas?

-Lars
lizzykat
Nov. 5th, 2002 11:58 am (UTC)
Re: predator
Well, since we knew they were in the car...couldn't we have, um, captured them and had them tried in international court???

These people are better gotten alive. Alive, they can give us information. Dead, they can give us nothing but a smug feeling of revenge, while provoking mountains of resentment in the Middle East (along with increased terrorism, something we're supposedly attemtping to destroy).
(Anonymous)
Nov. 5th, 2002 12:16 pm (UTC)
Re: predator

Alive would have been better, he would have been a very
valuable informational tool. Conceivably, sending the USMC on
a walking tour of Yemen is expensive, and may have resulted
in a greater loss of life, both Yemeni and American. Could it have
been faster to get the drone there? Were they searching the area
with drones already? If he had been en route to go hide in a
populated urban area, it could have been months before
they ever found him again.

Also, so far nobody has said any additional
bystanders were killed accidentally, even though this guy
was reportedly "being harbored" by a tribal group --
from the BBC - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2402479.stm
"When Yemeni Government forces came looking for him in al-Hosun, a tribal village in Marib, last December they were driven back by a hail of gunfire.
Eighteen Yemeni soldiers and three villagers died in the incident, but Harthi was not found"
I went to see if the BBC was upset about this but i couldn't tell yet

To be fair, they did use a predator to shoot
the wrong guy in afghanistan, they were looking for OBL
and hit a guy who was in the wrong place and "was tall"
if there were other extenuating circumstances in that one i
don't know about them.

Are people upset about the precedent this sets, or the event itself?

-Lars
swartzdk
Nov. 5th, 2002 12:32 pm (UTC)
Re: predator
This is also the only kind of action the other guys appreciate. The idea of trials and hearings and negotiation is a big joke to these people. Remember, these are the people who think we should die because we let our wives and daughters learn to read and god forbid, hold a job outside the home. An invasion of Yemen would not be a viable method as most Yemenis are not part of this mess and many of them would get killed or hurt in such an operation. A loaded predator in the hands of a 2 man team is much more efficient. We will see a lot more of this type of action in the future. If we can keep them on the run maybe they won't come back to New York any time soon.
snidegrrl
Nov. 5th, 2002 11:18 pm (UTC)
Re: predator
i suppose i can clarify what upsets me about this.

1. i don't like the precedent this sets, not one bit. i don't like the idea of automated efficient remote killing machines. sorry.

2. i don't know about the BBC, but all i could think when i read this story is to try to vaguely imagine what people around the world might think when they heard about this. (because i hope i am not so arrogant to think that i could see their point of view from my cushy safe position here in suburban USA.) i imagined that they would think. "this tool, this machine is a threat to me. the americans could decide at any time that they were justified to send a missile into my homeland, and now i know that they can do it. i fear them." and of course more often than not, fear leads to hate.

3. i hate to say it, but i don't always trust our government/the media to represent things fairly or tell the truth. the BBC article you posted said that this guy might be linked to the U.S.S. Cole, and while that may or may not be true, it's the perfect thing to say to make sure that most people simply write off the killing as justified. frankly i don't feel i am well-informed enough to make the judgement that this guy (who was admittedly probably a "bad guy") "deserved" to be obliterated. and i'm not keen on my government deeming itself judge jury and executioner. hence my saying it's an arrogant move.
snidegrrl
Nov. 5th, 2002 10:52 pm (UTC)
Re: predator
This action prevented loss of life on a much larger scale.

Maybe, maybe not. No one can tell the future. But I don't believe in killing to prevent more killing. It is hard for me to find a justification. Yes, that hard.

Any country having a plane that shoots missiles without a pilot scares me. In a human kind of way. No matter who is at the recieving end of the missile.

I do keep the Navy on the payroll to (potentially) murder people for me,
and frankly I think I got my money's worth on this one.


I would like to go on record as saying I don't want my money spent on killing people. Other people feel differently, so be it. I'll go vote where I want my money to go. Yay, democracy, blah blah blah.
rubinpdf
Nov. 6th, 2002 08:59 am (UTC)
Re: predator
plane that shoots missiles without a pilot scares me
Just because the pilot isn't in the plane doesn't mean the plane doesn't have a pilot. There is still a pilot flying the plane.


snidegrrl
Nov. 6th, 2002 09:36 am (UTC)
Re: predator
ok ok i will be more specific. it upsets me that the pilot is not in the plane. the pilot is removed yet another degree from the killing. it is even more impersonal. not htat i can imagine what it is like to remotely pilot a plane that's actually blowing people up, but i'd actually rather not get into that visualization.
traceracer
Nov. 5th, 2002 02:55 pm (UTC)
I must agree with Lars and Dad on this one. Granted, I'm not up on current events and don't follow the 'war' faithfully like many people do so I'm certainly not an authority on this subject. But I do feel that it wasn't 'whenever we damn well please' since it was provoked by their terroist attacks. Sure, catching them for questioning might have been more humane, but so is not ramming boats or planes into stationary objects filled with people. And, technically, we have delcared war on terrorism.
( 14 comments — Leave a comment )